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Post by Baxter900 on Oct 27, 2014 4:07:25 GMT
Initially Lucian doesn't seem like a great idea, he only helps us against the faction who's currently doing the worst.
At least, you'd think so. But let's go over our options;
We could get Brand, which will piss off Freljord who supported us, not a good idea.
We could get Syndra or Zed, which will piss off Ionia. Ionia already doesn't appear to like us all that much so not a huge loss, but Ionia's espionage is not a good thing to be on the wrong side of. Additionally, only versus Ionia who we aren't having a huge problem with.
We could get Sivir, overall though, split-pushing doesn't work well with anyone in bilge except TF.
We could get Talon, we already have Fizz, we don't really need another assassin. He would probably bring us closer to Noxus, but Noxus will support us already if they want to keep their illegal shipments going and us bullying Demacia for them.
Now we get to the people who give us big gameplay impacts:
We could get Twitch, who's worth considering for his teamfights, but his laning phase against Ashe and Varus leaves something to be desired if done wrong.
We could get Renekton, who would give us a large boost toplane, but we just got Jax to fill this hole. Additonally, he has
Lucian gives us a couple of things:
A very strong bottom lane vs Shadow Isles that's very hard for them to counter.
More importantly though,
Strong ties to Demacia, who after supporting us in gaining Jax, is showing their willingness to help, if we play them right we can play Noxus off of Demacia for huge gain.
Lastly, access to the purifiers when they get finished. If Lucian is going to be the leader of this anti-undeath/anti-void army, this gives us a huge bonus against them. That prepares us for any voidpocalyses, shadow isles becoming strong (somehow), and any undeath we find on Nyroth. It could also maybe give us a link to recruiting Vayne. This is HUGE.
So yea, that's why I think we should get Lucian, feedback is welcome!
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Post by animorpherv1 on Oct 27, 2014 5:28:59 GMT
Except we already have 2 adcs that are perfectly fine. I think Renekton/Brand is best combo, thinking purely about in-game.
Renekton wins EVERY matchup against melees, and Brand is super good vs. Frejlord.
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Post by Jpdaniel on Oct 27, 2014 10:22:19 GMT
I'll just kinda jump straight to lucian instead of commenting on all your reasonings:
Graves and MF are dukes of strong earlies, and don't only go against SI. But as for the lore reasoning, that's FAIR but when SI has been locked out of systems and the only other tie to Demacia is one we're getting good will from it seems a bit... unnecessary. We're preparing for invasion that will never come, and for ties we could possibly get on our own without using up this important pick that could send us further into the lead.
It's a good idea, but it feels unnecessary,
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Post by Baxter900 on Oct 28, 2014 4:19:39 GMT
I don't know, I just feel like we're already in a pretty solid position variability wise for matches, and none of them really add anything we don't have now that we have Jax (with maybe the exception of Brand, but I kind of think we should try to keep freljord happy and our friend)
However, outside of matches, we have the most tenuous position of all of the factions. Noxus will help us, but we'll have to essentially force them into it. We don't have connections with any of the other factions at all, and many of them don't like us. We have very little military power, essentially we have a band of Pirates for a navy which will fight to defend their home, and not much else unless we can pay them a huge amount. Noxus would also be hard pressed to risk anything for us. If it comes to an all out battle over anything (and let's face it, things usually come to that), we're pretty screwed unless it's a sea battle with the potential for loot.
The solutions to this are A. Invest in our military, which I'm guessing would be hard for Bilgewater; B. Find the Atlanteans, we might get an army there, but then again, we might not; C. Try to hijack someone else's military, this is why I really like the Lucian option. It gives us a direct link to the Purifiers which Demacia is building, and a link to making Demacia like us, in which case they will throw their entire army out to defend us (Plus from a commerce perspective, they might lend their speed boost to us).
Just my perspective though!
If we're going to get someone who's not Lucian though, I would definitely say Renekton.
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Post by wizard996 on Oct 29, 2014 1:20:13 GMT
Problem is, I don't really see Demacia liking us that much just because we pick up Lucian. Sure, he's from Demacia and hates the Isles, but I also don't see Demacia suddenly saying, "Huh. Maybe we should consider that these...mercenaries...have reformed, and are a noble cause to help." Just seems impractical unless we demonstrate how much we need their aid.
One more key thing to note: after the Shurima/phyrikos conflict and the war that followed, Demacia must pass a 160 DC check to deploy pretty much ANY military. Even if we get them to acknowledge us somehow, some probably forget how hard the League slapped them, and it's worth pointing out.
Now, I may be biased, but if push comes to shove we could possibly get Zaun. Think about it: they're a heavily industrialied country that knows how much our coin is worth, and their moral ambiguousness makes them somewhat able to be hired to protect/aid us without really putting the fact that we're pirates against us. Of course, we must be careful, as we risk getting entangled in all their corporate slog and become a puppet.
As Baxter said, investing in our own military is a bit too difficult at the moment.
Finding the Atlanteans is unlikely to suddenly give us a capable military, even if we DO find an entire civilization, and too much of a gamble.
'Hijacking' is a strong word, considering we don't have much political sway with the other Factions except for our gold and trade routes.
In conclusion, I must be the one to say it: Noxus and Zaun are our most viable options at this point in time. We certainly risk getting caught up in their massive conflicts, but if we need the aid of a faction outside this dispute, those are the two most realistic ones that are willing to help us.
Of course, this is assuming that massive conflict DOES occur...we might actually be able to get through this arc relatively peacefully.
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Post by Baxter900 on Oct 29, 2014 21:41:59 GMT
That's a good point Wizard996, I had forgotten how hard Demacia got hit by that. I think Zaun might protect us if we become useful enough to them, but I doubt Noxus would unless there was a really good reason (or we get some really good dirt on them and blackmail them, but that's playing with fire)
However with our current options, if we were to try to make Noxus like us we could hire Talon, which I really doubt would make Noxus like us any more (and from a gameplay perspective isn't that different from fizz).
We already have Kat anyway.
You are probably right about Lucian not really giving us a connection to Demacia.
I still think Lucian is worth it for the purifiers though.
To tell the truth though, I'd be surprised if we get anyone other than Renekton.
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Post by TerraBooma on Oct 30, 2014 5:13:48 GMT
Yah, I voted for Renekton simply because the top lane roster felt a little big lacking. I'm new this arc, so I don't know much of anything really  I think the idea of Zaun helping us out seems more likely, especially since we're probably the only ones who can smuggle stuff for them should we need to. I'm guessing Bilgewater doesn't have the most organised military huh... Well from what I've seen at least we have a general leader. Nami should be good at uniting the pirates should she need to. She's also going to be nice for the whole uniting of water/land people. I have this bad feeling that the atlanteans won't exactly be freindly for some reason. Who knows, maybe they're the monsters attacking the Mirai. |
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Post by Licantus on Oct 30, 2014 9:59:33 GMT
I just want to remind everyone that this section is open to all, so do not talk too much about Bilgewater strategy.
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I think the idea of Zaun helping us out seems more likely, especially since we're probably the only ones who can smuggle stuff for them should we need to.